An Open Public Letter to the “Pile Systems» team (Repost)

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In the last few days, I exchanged creative (private) e-mail with several members of the Pile project, as well with the inventor of Pile, Erez Elul. I decided to make this particular letter public through my blog, for several reasons:

  1. Firstly, to share it with Erez Elul (and his team) as well
  2. Secondly to invite other possible future participants in our team;
  3. Thirdly, to draw a distinction between our scientific or business cooperation (where certain parts must be kept strictly private) and our creative thinking on more general issues, which must be kept public, open to debate.

This letter is in favour of balance, reconciliation and cooperation for our future work, without excluding anybody from the benefits that our work can bring. Yesterday I received letters not only from you (the Pile Systems people) but also from the inventor of Pile, Erez Elul. It is sad there was a split between the inventor’s side and your team. However, even though it might be (for you) difficult or unpleasant to deal with it, my intuition tells me that -inevitably- we will need to plan ahead for a possible reconciliation between the two sides, in the future.

The responsibility for an open and thoughtful attitude of reconciliation rests heavily upon your shoulders, the «main team» of people who run the site ««. My basic personal objection against excluding Erez is both ethical and pragmatic (i.e. realistic). The ethical side of my intuition is that we can’t really exclude the… inventor from the benefits of a system that uses his invention. If (for some reason unknown to me at pressnt) he thinks in a defensive way, or if he wants to exclude you (assuming you are not trying to exclude him), then maybe he has made a mistake; this does NOT mean that it’s impossible to safeguard his rights and his share of profits that might arise in the near future; on the contrary, a «gentleman’s attitude» on your part (i.e. our part -now) is the best possible guarantee for the success of the project for everyone, as well as establishing prestige and good fame for the project on a very long term basis.

Well, please allow me to follow a «middle way» (as the Buddhists say); Neither for Erez Elul nor for your team, in the end. However, during the initial stages I am forced to cooperate with your side much more, because of practical issues; one of them being that I don’t see anything workable made public about the Pile project itself, coming from Pile’s inventor. Any lack of organization (on his part) will result in failure, unless there is information about his Pile project activities which escaped my attention till now.

Since a business structure (based on holdings) has already been started, and the Pile project is now in the phase of needing funds to become activated as a business, the previous considerations can hopefully play a positive part in preparing well for the future, by safeguarding the practical conditions for a possible return of the «exiled genius», when the time is ripe for this. Since you also seem to be in a phase where planning the structure of your company is still going on, I propose that some of Erez Elul’s worries and concerns are also taken seriously into consideration.

We really do NOT need another… Middle East conflict, in the Pile project! 🙂 We can do without extreme conflicts, we can rid ourselves from the «Black and White» absolute logic of «he who is not with me is against me» (the logic of both terrorism and so-called «anti-terrorism»).

So, we can prepare for future reconciliation by appreciating everyone despite his faults; E.g. I strongly appreciate Erez Elul’s inventiveness and inspiration, but I am not at all prepared to share his isolationism (as it comes across to me, without knowing exactly what happened). Since I am not… after him, I hope he can trust me more in the future, as his… «lawyer». There is no better safeguard of success, both for him and for your team, than to say «Hey Erez, there is a new guy here, George, who understands you, who wants to make sure you are not left out in the end, but who also wants you to cooperate; wants your opinions to be heard».

On the practical side, it is well known that when someone invests money in a project like this, then the investor’s share is the largest. However, negotiations and care about the details of such a deal, can be done in a way that profit-sharing is guaranteed, aiming at a reconciliation where in the end everyone feels satisfied: The investor gets his profit (otherwise WHY should there be investment in the first place?) and the people doing the hard work also get serious profit shares.

Otherwise, how can we grow stronger and compete effectively with others, who are likely to… copy Pile technology in the future, without attention to copyrights? In other words, by keeping the team or the company open, as much as possible, to newcomers (like myself) as well as other investors or other creative teams in the future, by making it very realistically and practically possible to grow more and more, instead of «closing up» and remaining stagnant, we can achieve multiple-level success, not only on behalf of the investor, or the initial team, but for every possible future participant, against the odds of all possible competition.

If the Pile team becomes maximally competitive, by making possible imitators redundant, through its attractive terms and conditions, then all future opposition or imitation can be minimized. In other words, it will be (in the future) more profitable for competitors to… join us, than to fight us or to compete against us! Our own structure, i.e. our business structure as well as our interpersonal structure, must become stronger by assimilating enemies and turning them into friends. Once this policy begins to work, and the effort grows more and more, then it will become possible to… invite Erez Elul back into the team; to tell him something like: «hey, exiled scientist, relax! Take a break, because you can ALSO have fun; by coming back»!

Well, if even a small part of these thoughts has succeeded to… entertain you, then you already made my day, if I succeeded to make your day! 🙂 Fortunately for you, Pile people, I am not only a scientist but also a musician and an entertainer, by virtue of my involvement in serious music projects, too (finishing these days another work project, which is turning the music of Greek composer Mikis Theodorakis into Danceable Trance-Club music). Ah well… My next letter will be private, about WORK we can do together (following the proposals of Peter Krieg). I sincerely hope I made your day, so… have a very nice day!

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  1. to whom may concern this is send to the recipients: ralf_w, jelte,ken

    subject: hi

    hi it is erez elul, asking what let you all know that i am paranoid with megalomania, such that you would use this labeling upon me when communicating with others, and if you would be in this state:

    you form in an agreement a company with another, such that you have 90% and other 10 %, the other is CEO of the company, but the CEO register the company a sole owner of the company, and you know this fact only after 7 years of partnership calmed by the CEO

    then what kind of compromise would you approach?
    Best Regards
    Erez Elul

  2. to whom it may concern , this was sent to the recipients: ralf_w, jelte, ken

    hi it is erez elul, asking what let you all know that i am paranoid with megalomania, such that you would use this labeling upon me when communicating with others, and if you would be in this state:

    you form in an agreement a company with another, such that you have 90% and other 10 %, the other is CEO of the company, but the CEO register the company a sole owner of the company, and you know this fact only after 7 years of partnership calmed by the CEO

    then what kind of compromise would you approach?
    Best Regards
    Erez Elul

  3. Dear Erez,

    You have a completely valid right to be anything you like, including paranoid or megalomaniac.

    THIS is not the problem, as far as I am concerned. Your complaints are the problem, if they are valid. Please feel free to bring them here, especially if you are bringing facts and evidence one can check for one’s self.

    Be my guest

  4. Erez, as you know I also removed from my original text anything that might offend you, or create the impression of the labels you mentioned. I support the right of any eccentric scientist or creator to be whatever he or she wishes, and I am against the use of labels, especially if they conceal truths and facts.

    Your Pile System is the most fascinating innovation I found during many years. Even if you were… King Kong, I would HAVE to recognise this. Since you are not King Kong, well… so much the better. You are still The King. 🙂

  5. 1. no thanks am not a king nor a kong, meet erez elul, hi, nice to meet you.

    2. if my lawyer would let me you would find what contains paragraph 6 of the Founder Agreement (April 2000) between me and Mr Peter Krieg (Real name: WILHELM W GLADITZ. Date of birth: 27/08/1947 Schwabisch-Gmund, Germany) in correlation to what you can find about PILE SYSTEMS INC registered in Nevada USA :

    3. How many and who are involved in that which you describe here as a project? Please let me know, you see my CEO do not inform me (the main shareholder as he describe it), from some response which he do not inform about them too. In fact he is silence since i arises that paragraph 6 in correlation to the registration of that company he made as its CEO.

  6. Erez, my answers to your points 1… 4
    1. OK… 🙂
    2. in your comment (2) do you mean that the «Founder Agreement» is confidential, or forbidden to show in public? BTW, the Nevada company is NOT secret. But it has no funds, I was told. I am also told by friends who know a lot about business that whoever invests funds in such a company, usually also gets the «lion’s share» of profits. No?
    2b. Why on earth should someone change his name, from one name to another name, if both sound equally foreign to native English speakere? Easier to pronounce, or what?
    3. I am NOT aware of details which are secret. If I was, and if I had promised to keep silent, I would tell you. No, the list of people who approached me, interested in my initial letter towards them and also interested in my own Logic System, are PRECISELY the people you also address in your mailing-address bundle. Nothing is hidden, as far as I can see. So, relax! 🙂
    Finally, do you think we can do something worthwhile and creative, or should we spend the rest of our lives with… bulshit? 🙂

  7. in
    you find this statement:
    Although Mr. Elul remains a major Pile Systems shareholder, he has withdrawn from active involvement in the incubation and development process and is pursuing separate interests.

    can you say what is the logic here, if erez elul is main shareholder, how come that he need to do something against his own power?

    Conclusion: either erez elul is crazy or peter krieg as CEO do not a representative of the main shareholder.

    Now, who is the naive here, which read this sentence and does not check the information (also) with that main shareholder?

  8. Erez, I am VERY glad you chose to express yourself, here in my blog.

    I will examine closely all the evidence you bring here. If there is injustice, or any lack of consistency, I will SAY it. If not, and someone thinks so, again I will say it. My only hope is that there are (as usual) fundamental MISUNDERSTANDINGS based on BAD TERMS in agreements. I hope such errors exist, because from my experience they can be overcome.

    You are saying -therefore- that you are NOT a major shareholder?

    BTW, I will take a lunchbreak and also go out for a swim now, so take your time in asnwering. It is very important you make use of this opportunity. It will help others too, in the future. Be my guest and please continue.

    Till later, be well

  9. bullshit or not, is not related to having currently money, but to potentially having intellectual properties! If you and other still do pile, you seek for such intellectual properties, when you do not do it GPL, as does Ralf Westphal

    For more about the IDM (Intuitive Data Model), please see this:

    For more about Ralf Westphal, please see this:

  10. Well, this term of «misunderstanding» could be ONLY in one moment but not in 7 years, when peter krieg ply double facing!!!

    If the company is registered to the sole owner being peter krieg and if publicly as well in private, he talk about share holding of any kind and if it, the «misunderstanding», is in the agreement assigning the invention to the company, then the «misunderstanding» is made with bad intention and is criminal de facto!!

    In addition peter krieg did not deliver to me any document proving i have any share in the company, after i asked for sometimes, now the lawyer asked and when i will get the papers i would be able maybe to tell more, as for what erez elul holds in pile system inc.

  11. in

    now peter krieg changed it to

    Pile Systems Inc, is a Nevada registered C-company currently dormant and incubated by co-founder Peter Krieg and partners. Pile inventor and co-founder Erez Elul withdrew from the project in 2006 when his demand for a radically new licensing concept for Pile to «prevent abuse» was declined by his partners. The new licensing scheme would have severely restricted the privacy rights of users and licensees, including open source licensing under GPL V.2. In business terms, it would have killed the business case of Pile Systems Inc.
    Although Mr. Elul remains a major Pile Systems shareholder, he has withdrawn from active involvement in the incubation and development process and is pursuing separate interests. Basic technology development as well as application development will move to licensees and partner companies.
    Pile Systems Inc. continues as an IP holding and licensing unit. The information available from this site will be adapted accordingly.
    The international patents of Pile Systems are still pending.
    Posted by kriegpeter on April 25 2007 11:50:04

  12. Basic technology development as well as application development will move to licensees and partner companies., why? under what authority?

  13. Hi Erez,

    Just came back and saw what you wrote. It doesn’t seem an easy problem to solve, I think. I will ask my own (informal) partner Mr. Lambros Chronopoulos, who has more experience on business legal and organisational issues (and is the founder of PSP Ltd
    -a company installing ADSL connections) to help me understand what is going on here, in what you said. I can see the contradiction you are pointing out; major questions remain unclear in my mind. As you said, ARE you or are you NOT a «major shareholder»? And if you are, what is your exact share in the company? And what terms in your agreement regulate the «licensees and partner companies»? As you ask, «under what authority?»…

    I will come back to you in a while…

  14. George wrote:
    > (…) I am forced to cooperate with your [=Pile Systems ; RB] side much more, (…)

    Why are you forced to cooperate with Pile Systems? As you, George, want to follow a «middle way», please consider the Open Source project pileWorks hosted at sf as such a way ( The return of the «exiled genius» is as much appreciated as Pile Systems’ and everybody else’s cooperation.

    So far, pileWorks’s strategy for dealing with any potential issues that might arise with Pile Systems Inc. and/or ErezElul is: (1) work around the patent (application) by using a different implementation technique; if that is not possible, we would (2) remove the pieces of code that were covered by those patents, and also (3) find prior art that would render the patent useless.

    Ralf B.

  15. Hallo Mr Ralf Barkow.
    1. you were invited by me to help in manging that pilework in sf, but you took control on the mailing list, so then i left that project.
    2. let me remind you to that removing is included in modification !
    3. any thing licensed by pile system inc, is nowadays being challenged, but the patent is registered on the name erez elul.
    4. can you specify more, what are your planes and authorization in both: the pileworks in sf and in the pile sytems inc.

  16. Hi Everyone! My sincere apologies for accidentally not publishing certain comments, which were automatically grabbed by WordPress as «spam» and I had not noticed, till today, that this happened. Today I removed the «spam tag» and they were finally published, but it’s possible that there have been other comments accidentally removed (if this is the case, if anyone feels it’s worth re-publishing them, you are very welcome).

    Well, I have to say I liked Ralf’s comment (of May 17th) as well as his attitude more generally. My sole interest and proposed activity in Pile is to deal with what is already available as Open Source, in the sourceforge project. If there are disputes even about this, I am sorry to hear it, but (hehe) it’s too late now to… censor the sf project, as I have downloaded most of the material (or had it sent to me by the other team of PileSys inc).

    My aim is of course… a little self-centred (hehe); it’s basically to improve Multiple Form Logic as a viable alternative to other logic methodologies, overcoming certain small difficulties by using Pile (if this is possible).

    I would urge Erez Elul to be positive, as regards my efforts, since everyone is likely to benefit, if the goal is reached.

    Moreover, I am surprised that not enough logic and mathematical rigor has been included in most of the available papers and presentations. If you look up my own public bookmarks, tagged as «Pile», you will also see a reference to a discussion between Ralf and certain other (conventionally thinking) professional people who expressed serious doubts and criticisms against Pile itself. I am not saying I agree with these criticisms (which were probably too hastily expressed by these people), but what I am saying is that more rigor _is_ required.

    The Pile project seems to me a little too «tied to specific implementation details». If it was presented as an axiomatic system of Logic, a LOT would be gained. For instance, a simulation of Pile using Prolog predicates (if not in 1st order Logic) would be very beneficial, and decisive for the acceptance of Pile by skeptics.

    Please don’t give up the positive issues and the need to overcome problems, losing too much energy in conflicts, Erez (I say this to you because Ralf works for another company now and maintains a mostly academic inspiration about the subject, if I understand him correctly).

    Best Regards

  17. I hope you could be wise not only clever, hehe, that is to say, i hope you would build trust, but at this point, hehe, you lost mine.

  18. WHY on earth have I «lost your trust»?

    Trust to do WHAT?

    In improving M.F.Logic using pile, I dont need «trust» as such, I will need you (OR WHOEVER IS RESPONSIBLE) to give permission for this, if it can be used in any other (commercial) application.

    Till, then, I receive nothing, anyway. Working for the fun of it, sometimes.

    If I succeed, you will be notified, of course. As well as the other team. But then YOUR problem (between you) must be solved, or else we ALL become losers, for NOTHING.

    I hope you think again, more clearly Erez.

    Private mail also sent (again).


  19. I mean, Erez, you must have seriously misunderstood something I said. WHAT?
    When I say «everyone will benefit» I mean also, that everyone will NOT benefit, if advances in OTHER technologies using Pile are prevented for silly reasons.
    When something is «Open Source», commercial exploitation is PROHIBITED (at least as I understand it, in the particular case of Pile).
    I am doing for you guys FREE RESEARCH. What do you want me to do next?
    Dance a little, in the rain (in a rainy Greek day)? 🙂
    Oh, dear! (as the English say….)

  20. after all, there is a new way to make things right, it is the common companies way!
    as you all now so well what Mr KRIEG say that erez said, let me say here clearly to what erez invite others for to develop together the pile technology, it is specified in the site and any other way would go against the intellectual properties right of erez elul, so please try this one, thanks.

  21. Welcome back, Erez!

    I have often browsed your site, and I find your ideas about a new form of company, which is owned (mostly) by the people who work in it, very fascinating (especially your deep analysis of many details that nobody I know has ever thought about). I’d recommend to anyone to browse the site you gave here.

    Please note that my e-mail has changed. It is now, and please dont send e-mail to the yahoo old account which became obsolete (after hackers tried to invade it, I changed the password in a hurry, then forgot the password as well as other details and -as a result- I was locked out). If you sent e-mail to my own account it was lost, and I also lost some of your alternative e-mail addresses.

    My very best Wishes

  22. NOTE:
    Yesterday ( 3 May 2008 ) my e-friend Erez Elul has placed some links in his new site, in «StumbleUpon», mentioning this posting. He also placed my in his «friends list», in that site.

    Erez looks enthusiastic and renewed, but I was unable to send him a message of thanks yet, for certain practical reasons, within his site.

    The link to his new site is:

    BEST WISHES, Erez!

  23. Well, life is easy now, smile.

    Please go to my site and register your self there, i am the admin there, so we could be connected via my site. It is a social netwroking now, so just join us and recommend others (as u said) to do the same.

    Btw pile is implemented in the site.

    More, now we build platform for including other sites with pile, all sites under our server and each alone or with others is dediacted for personal use or for building projects, together aiming becoming as many as we could make ComCom in any field, and yes, pile would take each page in such site as a pile object.

    so well, life is easy now, smile.

  24. I think that, as regards Pile, the best thing to do is first of all to take a look at the inventor’s own site. In particular

    Where it says
    «Pile Technology can no longer be authorized by the company «pile systems inc», as its CEO in the last 7 years is breaking the law (for more details and 3rd party discussions see this blog), hence anything authorized by that company (including but not only its distributions under GPL), if such authorization was made by or under that CEO, it is unlawful!»

    I say this mostly for other people who might be reading, since the topic of Pile is serious and the inventor’s wishes must be taken into consideration, first of all.

    The inventor of Pile, Erez Elul said he will not cooperate unless through his own business model of ComCom, which must be followed, so if anyone wishes, one can try to go to his site and participate in ComCom with him.

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