Redesigning the Greek Flag: Several brand new Torture-compatible Flag Enhancement Proposals

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UPDATE (18 Feb. 2008)

A serious phone-threat this morning forced me to remove the main part of this post. Moreover, other threats and insults, ever since this post was first published have been ominous in number and intensity. Some people who felt offended by this post have -evidently- seriously misunderstood the intent and meaning of it, which was an alternative flag, suitable for fascists, torturers and other extremists; NOT the Greek flag itself, but a convenient substitute expressing their own evil nature and criminal tendencies. I really don’t think it was an «offensive post» (with respect to the real Greek flag) but it doesn’t matter any more. It is not so much fear for my life (which was threatened today) as much as disgust and unwillingness to continue such a topic in my blog (of much less importance than other topics), which made me take this decision of self-censorship.

The media-storm in Greece goes on and on, revealling that the use of torture against immigrants by the Greek Police has been systematic, shameless and widespread. Police torture videos are discussed in many Greek blogs. After the first video, a flood of others emerged; some of them about female prisoners sexually assaulted by Greek policemen; one of them showing the same policeman (as in the first video) together with several policemen-accomplices, torturing immigrant prisoners while having a kind ofBouzouki-party!

  • This new Police torture video is a kind of sequel to the first one (i.e. the video discussed in the blog «Hut on top of the mountain«, as well as HERE) and after a mysterious appearance in «Alpha» (TV station), it was discussed by many Greek bloggers (e.g. «dirtyjazz»).

The Greek minister of Justice Mr. Polydoras, has tried to cover up the evidence of Greek Police Torture, instead of dealing with the problem! E.g. by ordering Police Stations across the country to… destroy further mobile-phone videos, recorded by… «fun-loving Greek policemen» (who have… SUCH a good time torturing prisoners that they often like to… celebrate it by watching the video together with their friends).

  • The Greek Ministry of Justice is also…cornering the blogger who first published the infamous Police torture video: There is considerable pressure for the «true identity» of this blogger to be revealed (e.g. reported HERE – in Greek).

IF you want (e.g.) to download the REAL Greek flag (NOT the one proposed here for use by… fascist torturers), please visit this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Greece

Samples of my Art follow:

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27 comments

  1. Thanks for the links.

    From the first link, it appears that the attempt to redesign the Greek flag (even as a brutal joke, addressing Greek fascists) can be turned upside down, or perverted into an attack on Greece, as a whole. For this reason, my suggested remedies are

    1) ALSO redesign appropriately the Turkish flag (e.g. a swastika instead of star) as well as many other flags (the American one, in particular, has already been redesigned suitably innumerable times).

    2) Make it CLEAR, as I did while speaking to a Greek friend who wrote in this blog, objecting against my «redesign proposals»… making it absolutely clear that the purpose of these distorted re-designed «Greek flags» is similar to the purpose of… Gadarene swine, who were used to dispose of deamons (in a known Bible story). In other words, my intent is (of course) NOT to change the Greek flag, but to change the SPECIFIC flag of SPECIFIC individuals (policeman-torturers, in particular). Then, they can have -at last- their own flag, which is no longer the Greek flag, but a fascist flag.

    Your second link is quite informative about human rights violations in Turkey, which are much worse than those in Greece. Thanks a lot.

  2. you guys r fucked u fuckwits the greek flag isnt fucken german nacy fucken racist kunts we dotn kill jews like u fucken poor kunts go fuck ur ugly old mums u fucked up german kunts ellhns eimaste bromo germany elleftheria H thanatos

  3. You have to be the dumbest person to ever get on the internet ade re mallacca esi then xeris tipota esi akos to TV ke lene psemata

    ego nomiso pos ise pousties ke enas gamimeno turkos

    pa na gamithis

  4. I look at the statistics for this posting, and I can’t figure out why SO MANY PEOPLE are (still) reading it! Today it has become the «top posting» in this blog.

    Look, guys, if you feel offended by this posting, I am very sorry, but my principles are much stronger than the strong language I used, to denounce police brutalities in Greece.

    If anybody is e.g. a Greek American who feels «concerned» about my (temporary) mis-treatment of the Greek flag, please remember that it was done as a protest for behaviour which is TOTALLY unacceptable in any (democratic) country. If some Greeks thlnk «torture is OK» I have supplied them with a ‘special flag’ to denote their fascist leanings.

    If -on the other hand- the reader is not a moronic nationalist, one CAN understand that in these matters, no less than a VERY strong protest is appropriate. I simply will NOT tolerate my country becoming a junta or a fascist state again (and neither will you, hopeefully). So, stick around to read other postings, if this one angers you; it’s NOT the most important topic in this blog!🙂

  5. My dear friend,

    I do not approve by any means, any fascist action whatsoever, wherever in the world it may be commited. But redesigning the Greek flag in tune as you say with the spirit of the events you mention, is rather inappropriate. You see, this flag reflects upon every single citizen of this country. I may not be proud of the actions of Mr Polidoras or the Greek police, but I’m very proud that I am a Greek citizen. This flag reflects on a nation. Not on the actions of the few.

    Furthermore, the Greek flag is a symbol. And as such, the least you should do is respect it, like any other symbol. Many men have lost their lifes for us to be free and have that symbol waving above our heads, if you can understand what I mean. By respect for those men, and by respect to the rest of us living, the least you could do, is remove those designs.

    Regards

  6. Thank you for your thoughtful observation.

    My position is that this «flag» is a caricature, a flag of OTHERS (i.e. fascists), not decent people like yourself.
    I have already made it clear that:
    NOTE: The remaining “flag designs” have been removed today (3rd of September 2007) because… too many people are accidentally browsing this posting, through search engines (looking for the phrase “Greek flag”) and I really have NO desire to… literally change my country’s flag!

    P.S. (added later)
    Dear «citizen»,
    I was so impressed by the quality of your extremely civilised protest, that I decided to take it seriously into consideration. As a result, today I added a
    DISCLAIMER: This is NOT the REAL Greek flag. This “flag” is addressed (as their OWN flag) to those… bigots criticized earlier. If you suffer from an “automatic reflex reaction” (feeling offended) it is not my fault. To see (and download) the real Greek flag, which does deserve respect, see below:

    (and what follows is):
    IF you want (e.g.) to download the REAL Greek flag (NOT the one proposed here for use by… fascist torturers), please visit this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Greece

    As you can see, it is NOT my intent to offend you, or to offend the Greek flag itself.
    In any case, there are countless examples of distorted or seriously forged Greek (and other) flags. E.g. there are Greek flags with a… hammer and sickle in the middle (proposed as symbols for a non-existent «Greek People’s Republic»). In America it is NOT an offense (I believe) to change or criticize or (even) to ridicule the American flag. In any case, it is NOT my intend to ridicule or forge the real Greek flag itself.

    As we grow up, as a nation, we ought to consider these things. If someone (e.g. an opponent of Greece) makes similar or worse «changes» in the Greek flag, what would you do? Censor it? Since this is impossible, we ought to remember (sometimes) that flags are ALSO shapes on paper, cloth or TFT screens. It is the intended USE or MESSAGE, that matters. And I have strived to keep my own message as clear, and as non-offensive (to decent people like yourself) as possible.

  7. Personally I don’t understand why someone would be «proud to be a citizen» of any country since their citizenship was probably decided by birth. It’s like being «proud of being tall».

    As for being personally offended by a point of view…well as Christopher Hitchens says «That’s not an argument». It is also not an argument to say «people died defending that flag». To torture arrested civilians in custody is exactly the disgrace you are against.

    Even so, the freedom to offend with words is the freedom to disagree. Take away that freedom and you have fascism. People should be allowed to voice their grievances in a symbolic manner in public. If we are forced to endure public displays of flag worship with long nazi-like military processions on national holidays (march 25/october 28) people should likewise be allowed to publicly show their dislike for that same flag.

    -Simon @ atheoi.ORG

    To say that «people died defending that flag» does not have anything to do with the a**hole police officers who disgraced it in those videos.

  8. So freakin what if the police torture filthy Albanians they are nothing but filth and deserve it. Greeks for Greece exo oi xenoi malakismene! Figures your a stupid Greek Amerikanaki malaka. The USA is the king of tortue go protest about them arxidi.

  9. @SimonSays
    Did you really mean the two lines about «To say that “people died defending that flag” does not have anything to do with the a**hole police officers who disgraced it in those videos»? If you insist, I will delete them…🙂

    I am afraid some «Greeks» live in a different country. Perhaps we are truly offering them a service, by providing them with an alternative flag more suitable for their taste; torturing filthy Albanians is REALLY quite OK for them. Well, I suppose they can still emigrate to… Turkey and dance some tsiftenteli with their brothers, the…Turkish policemen, who think torturing filthy Kurds is ok!🙂

  10. DOING THIS TO OUR FLAG YOU ARE AGENS GREECE AND ALLTHE GREEKS IN THE WORLD.YOU BETER KIP YOUR MOUTH CLOSE BEFOR ITS TOU LATE.

    ZHTO H ELLAS!!!

    MR PERICLES.

  11. Με την… καφρίλα και την ανοησία που σε δέρνει, Περικλέτο, ΔΕΝ εκπλήσσομαι. Αυτό το ποστ τσιγκλάει ΑΚΡΙΒΩΣ κάτι διανοητικά καθυστερημένους ΦΑΝΑΤΙΛΕΣ όπως η πάρτη σου. Αντε και γαμίσου, και μην πειράζεις ΟΥΤΕ ένα μόριο από την πραγματική ελληνική σημαία. Αντίθετα, πάρε τη ΔΙΚΗ ΣΟΥ ΣΗΜΑΙΑ, φασιστάκο, ΟΠΩΣ σου τη φιλοτέχνησα ΕΙΔΙΚΑ για ρεμάλια σαν κι εσένα, λάδωσέ την καλά, και χώστην στον κώλο σου.

    Και ξεκουμπίσου από αυτή τη χώρα, μετανάστευσε στη ΔΙΚΗ ΣΟΥ ΧΩΡΑ, την Τουρκία, όπου ανήκεις, να σε προσλάβουν σαν βασανιστή Κούρδων.

    Ααα… μα πια.🙂

  12. 1. Αντικειμενικά, η ίδια σημαία ισχύει για εκατομμυρία ανθρώπους. Την ίδια σημαία έχουνε ο Πλεύρης, ο Καρατζαφέρης, ο Άδωνιςς κλπ.
    2. Αντί να αναθεματίζουμε για προσβολές σε σύμβολα, ας καθήσουμε να σκεφτούμε τι σημαίνει για τον καθένα να είναι Έλληνας και τι μας προσβάλλει ως Έλληνες.
    3. Όταν γίνεται επίκληση ενός συμβόλου από κάποιον, ο οποίος είναι μία εμετική οντότητα, αναγκαστικά η απέχθειά σου θα στρέφεται και ενάντια στο περιεχόμενο που αυτός προσδίδει στο σύμβολο αυτό.
    4. Η τιμή και η αξία του κάθε ανθρώπου υπάρχει ανεξάρτητα από σημαίες. Αν περιμένεις να προσδώσεις λόγο και σημασία σε ό,τι πρεσβεύεις επειδή ταυτόχρονα ανεμίζεις σημαίες, είσαι απλά ανόητος.
    5. Η ελληνική σημαία σημαίνει για μένα άλλα πράγματα και μπορώ να την αντικρίζω με τιμή για αυτά που σημαίνει για μένα. Προσωπικά πιστεύω ότι οι βασανιστές μπάτσοι πρέπει να διώκονται και να φυλακίζονται ως υβριστές της σημαίας.

  13. Φίλε ανώνυμε apo666apo,
    Συμφωνώ με όσα είπες.

    Πραγματικά ξεχνάμε ότι ο καθένας βλέπει με το δικό του τρόπο τη σημαία. Λογικό είναι, η πιο ανθρωπιστική και πιο εναρμονισμένη με τους άλλους συνανθρώπους μας άποψη, να προσβάλλεται πολύ περισσότερο όταν κάποιοι άλλοι ασχημονούν ή εγκληματούν ανεμίζοντας τη σημαία, πολύ περισσότερο από την προσπάθεια αυτού εδώ του ποστ να τους… δωρίσει (σε όσους εγκληματούν) μια εντελώς δική τους σημαία, διαφορετική από τη δική μας, ώστε να ασχημονούν και να εγκληματούν με μία ΠΡΑΓΜΑΤΙΚΑ κατάλληλη για το δικό τους ποιόν σημαία.

    Π.χ. όταν κανείς βασανίζει κρατουμένους (του), ας ασπασθεί (και ας υιοθετήσει κιόλας) τη σημαία που πρότεινα, ώστε να είναι πιο ΣΥΝΕΠΗΣ με τον εαυτό του και με τον… Αγώνα του Αδόλφου!🙂 Να καταλαβαινόμαστε!🙂

  14. We’ve got some nice fascists, just like you, dear, over here.

    Would you like us to send them over there, in Turkey, so that you can all have a tsiftenteli-party or something? (and get their sorry asses OUT of here)?

    Do me a favour, eh?

  15. i don’t know what u just said and i don’t give a fuck… look man i just wanned to express myself towards greeks thats all.. u know u keep talkin shit about turkey and albania and all the other counties sayn u the shit.. well u not.. cuz where i live greek people lick my fuckin balls thats what they do…
    that’s all i had to say…

  16. Well, you hate Greeks because they remind you sometimes of… Turks.🙂

    We have some worse people than you, here, why don’t we send them over there, so that they can lick YOUR balls, instead of being such a pain in OUR balls?

  17. not really i just don’t like them…
    well u should send them here since they think they all tough maybe i’ll
    straight them out i got some albanian boys which would love to take care of them.

  18. idk if you realize but it was bc of Greece that Hitler untimely failed, it was the turning point in the war when Greece held the Italians and kept germen troops in Greece and wouldn’t let them move on, for you to show the swastika on our beautiful and noble flag not only brakes the hearts of our people and disgraces all those who fell fighting for their country’s freedom and even their people’s survival but you also dishonor those that are still alive those that lost friends and cousins, brothers fathers, my papou was born in the USA but his cousin in Greece was only 17 in Sparti, he was rounded up and put into a truck he jumped off the truck and hid in the woods later that day he saw every man and boy 12 and up was machine-gunned and left on the road, people like that are now dishonored bc of your ignorant slander, governments change, policies change, torture is evil, and those who conducted it should be severely punished and shamed, blame the government if they are responsible, blame those individuals, but don’t you dare dishonor the people. I hope to god your wisdom improves. – Niko Stamas

  19. @Nikos,

    I am truly sorry if you feel offended, but I ALREADY explained that the «special nazi flag» is NOT the Greek flag. It is intended as the special flag of those particular Greeks who DISHONOUR Greece. Please read the preceding dialogue.

    If you like Greece to be cleaned-up of all fascist scum, let the scum waive their own flag.

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